I promote eQSL by asking everybody to save the trees!!! during the QSO . Maybe saving the environment can be an incentive.

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GM3ZGH Ron Yeoman

well i think Eqsl is amazing..........i use HRD to utilise my radio and the Eqsl upload feature on the log book is well fantastic !! What more can i say?

We email people all day long, we very rarely write a letter so i dont know what all the fuss is about......Paper cards Hmm nice but not an issue to me i can print them if i really want to but its like photos, most people have them on hard drives and play them back on Pc`s and TVs when they want to view them, after all i have thousands of pictures on my hard drive, now where would i store that lot if i had them on Film??

Anyhow i will badger the RSGB as a member and my friend is on the Board this should eliviate there moan about cards being wasteful resource etc as Eqsl is the way forward.

Many thanks for such a great idea and service.

M1AEC avid Eqsl User and promoter!

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M1AEC Mark Coulthurst

How about an eQSL sponsored contest. Must be a member. All mode/band.

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W4CLQ Steve Sydorwicz

I enjoy the consept of the QSL Card, I still have my collection from CB days (30yrs ago) to be honest I still to this day send "hard copy" QSL cards if asked.
I also collect old QSL cards earlest 1922 (and have about 1500 cards all up)

I ended up sending 149 QSL Cards out in a period of 3mths, paid someone to make them from the eQSL site and had them posted to Australia...... so there's a cost when you look at this from the start...making, postage and then sending out the QSL cards (postage $81.95 AUD).... and I'm not complaining about the cost by any means...it is my choice to do this, problem.
After the ratio of cards sent to RX its disapointing, now once agin it is my choice to do this method of QSL'ing.... but its just sad, 149 cards sent 4 RX.

Sooooooo with this I now only send an eQSL, I still do offer the hard copy QSL (I ask if he/she wants a hard copy as well. as an eQSL).

Cheers Paul.

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VK4FPDW Paul Weir

When working some stations and they end with "PSE NO EQSL" I always gets curious about that - why that negative statement?

Would love to hear the arguments...

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SM2DNR Kjell Löfgren

I fear this is the wrong place to be asking that question. Better you should ask the people who make that statement about their reason(s). Everyone here is an eQSL member, and probably has as much difficulty as I do understanding why people refuse to use eQSL.

BUT, that doesn't stop me from starting a list of possible reasons that might be given. Feel free to add to it.

I don't use eQSL because:

1. I am a luddite.
2. I am only an appliance operator.
3. Why should I QSL at all? I didn't have to learn Morse Code to get my license.
4. I am an immature, self-centered cretin who has no appreciation for the values and traditions of Ham Radio or the interests of anyone but myself.
5. [bleep] you and your eQSLs.
6. I am scared to death of anything new.
7. I make too much profit from "green stamps" and IRCs to want to change.
8. I am too wealthy to be concerned about spending a few hundred/thousand dollars unnecessarily.
9. ...

73, Doug, W5DET

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W5DET Doug Thompson

I'm thinking #4 & #7 are the correct answers. I've never understood why someone wouldn't answer a QSL via a FREE method, unless they're self-centered and don't care about anyone other than themselves...however, I own three companies and two retail businesses and see lots of folks in this category, so I know for a fact that it's a fairly common condition.

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WB4IUY Dave Hockaday
http://www.WB4IUY.net
http://www.2vuLcans.net
http://www.TEARA.org

Yes, #1 is good Doug, I really like that one... :)

And as Dave says eQSL is free, so why not use it? Its simpler to set up than LOTW and the only setback is the demand for an Internet connection.
And there maybe some of the problem could be found, Internet isn't readibly available everywhere to a reasonable cost.
But whith increased growth and use of the net I think more hams probably will at least have a more positive look on eQSL - if they don't convert totally, that is.

To those non-eQSL-fans who need a hardcopy of the QSL - as wallcover? - the eQSL could be mailed to the appropriate QSL bureau where the QSL at a cost is printed out and can be fetched by the ham.
From that the next step is to mail the eQSL directly to the ham, that's even cheaper for everyone.
Much work with QSL's at bureaus and clubs are minimized.

But for now - why in heaven not register at eQSL for FREE and fetch the QSL's, at least the local radio club ought to have an Internet connection if that is the problem.

Yes Doug, you are right, this forum is maybe not the place to ask for arguments from the retro people - there is just only us orthodox hams here. :)


73's / Kjell

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SM2DNR Kjell Löfgren

New ideas always seem to follow the same trajectory:

1. Hostility and rejection.
2. Creeping acceptance.
3. Universal recognition.

Before I started using eQSL, I was unsure if it was as good as having paper cards.
But after using it, I have made it my primary method of QSL'ing.
I keep the received QSL pictures in a folder on the PC, where I can browse them
anytime I wish and even turn them into a slideshow.
My paper cards are in the cupboard where they gather dust. It is also wonderful to
have QSLs' appear soon after a contact, it makes the QSO even more special.
There will always be organisations and individuals, who like king Canute try to turn
back the tide, but they will be eventually swept away by unstoppable momentum.

Each person who migrates to eQSL primarily is another contact not available for the
traditionalists, so the pool of contacts for them will drop. Eventually, to survive, they
will need to adapt to the new landscape or go extinct.

I feel for those people who cannot adapt to the electronic QSL mode of thinking, but
at least eQSL makes it a reasonably painless path to join. In this way they are doing
what is best for ALL hams, even those without complicated computers and extensive
computer experience. Also by offering free membership, it gives support to those hams
in situations that cannot afford more than the most modest of stations and expenses.
Dave N5UP, is to be commended for this and deserves the support he has garnered
from all over the globe.

Finally, I am in no doubt that eQSL will become the primary qsl'ing method, as like a
snowball, every extra ham who joins will bring more along with him in time, forming an
unstoppable momentum.

As an interesting mathematical diversion, if 75 new members join each day, as stated
elsewhere, that would be a growth rate of 17 percent annually, based on 160,000 current
members. Using the approximate compound interest formula for doubling 70/17, that
would result in a doubling every 4 years. So in 4 years the membership may be 320,000.
In 8 years 640,000. This of course assumes a continued growth of 17 percent, but it
may be more, if the momentum picks up.

So it looks like the future is pretty good for eQSL based on current trends.

73s es cheers - Rob

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VK2ATC R. Iwasenko

There are a bunch of people who don't use it because they use LotW instead. I can't blame them for that - if they're already set up for LotW, why join a second service? I get into this on a regular basis with LotW fanbois... I don't do LotW because it offers me nothing that I don't already get from eQSL. LotW is also a mighty PITA when you have multiple callsigns and coordinate special events with callsigns as I do. And ARRL makes you pay to submit LotW QSLs for awards. It's the worst of all methods in my opinion, but I digress.

Personally, I still QSL every first contact by paper anyway - I like getting the cards, I like making the cards, and I like sending the cards. eQSL serves as sort of a log backup and QSL for all the second-and-higher contacts. I also like that a contact gets QSL'd instantly here.

Now, if eQSL would modernize and upgrade card graphics to photo-quality (300 dpi), I might be more inclined to print my eQSLs and save them instead of sending cards.

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VE3OIJ P. Darin Cowan

I use LOTW & eQSL...and have recently started uploading my logs to HRDlog.net just to capture a few more QSLs through that method. My favorite is eQSL for ease of use and the cool digital cards I get from people to print and upload to the digital picture frame in my shack. I also still do some paper cards, just because I enjoy that as well, and because some people only QSL via paper. It's all fun stuff and adds to my enjoyment of the hobby. Hat's off to Dave for the development and maintenance of eQSL!

Dave Wb4IUY
www.WB4UY.net

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WB4IUY Dave Hockaday
http://www.WB4IUY.net
http://www.2vuLcans.net
http://www.TEARA.org
Edited by WB4IUY Dave Hockaday on May 5, 2010 at 02:37 AM

Incentives for improving response and increasing members might consider a system of additional certificates for DX 150 & DX 200 and Prefix increments beyond 300 at 500 or 600 and 1000 or 1200 - Our Club W1GLO just obtained the 300 level award and now has more than 450 prefixes - since eQSL automatically keeps the records it would not be a great stretch to expand the awards on those awards - Hank W4RIG - Treasurer for W1GLO

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W1GLO Cape Ann Amateur Radio Assoc.

Greetings fellow Hams and SWLs. I am relative new to EQSL, but find that in my QSO's I ask if the recipient of my conversation is registered here and that if they aren't to do so works quite well. The simplicity of the site is what attracted me to it and the ease of operations. Plus it is nice to not have to spend many$$ in giving a QSL card to someone. I have recieved alot of cards from folks just asking them to join here. And if all goes well they try it and become paying members also. So it is really a win win situation for them and EQSL. I appreciate all the founders of this site has done to make it what it is here. THANKS to them!! And 73 to everyone and God Bless. Brian

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K0OLD Brian J. Umbenhower

Maybe a promotion , like a FREE 6 month Bronze membership for new members from certain areas where we there is a lack of partisipation , might just get them in and get them hooked on eQSL that way.

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NC8X Tim Allen

ARRL definitely did NOT invent the eQSL. I invented it, and they immediately decided it was "not secure". Never mind that we invented the Authenticity Guaranteed program to verify identities and have the same security that banks and online brokerages offer. They copied us.

We have been prodding ARRL to accept our eQSLs since day one. They have refused. Next year we will have more members than they do, so it will soon become a moot point. We offer the same awards they do, but make it much less expensive to earn them.

We would love to work with ARRL. They have a profit to protect, and that's probably not going to change.

Because we offer eQSLs for free, we do not have a paid staff. If you want the RSGB to accept eQSLs, please contact them and suggest it. We don't have the manpower to do it all ourselves, unless we start charging everybody for membership

I am a fairly new ham and enjoying the hobby a great deal. I was disappointed to find out the eQSL is not accepted by the ARRL for their awards as it seemed like such a great way to express the final courtesy of the QSO. I certainly understand the need for any award program to have creditability without it the awards mean nothing. However in this day and age when literally billions of dollars of financial transactions are securely effected on a daily basis using web based platforms I find it unreasonable to believe the verification of contacts in the radio hobby could come into any serious question. As long as some reasonable verification method is in place that should be good enough. There will be those who will try to game any system for their own twisted reasons, to those few that do and are successful I suspect if they devoted that much time and energy in attaining their goal via legitimate means they would have been better off.

After thinking about it, it was no surprise the ARRL rejected eQSL If you think about it eQSl is a competitor and has the potential to have a negative impact in the ARRL checkbook. Now here is where I begin to have problems. It seems to me the ARRL has become more of an institution in and of itself and has evolved into a bottom line oriented marketing company. There is no doubt the ARRL does a lot of good things for the HAM community especially in the area of Spectrum Defense. However when you take a good look at the financials (read salaries) and the management structure for the organization I have to wonder if they are there for me or more for themselves.

One thing I believe, however, the ARRL would not and could not exist without the support of its members, that would be you and I. If we the members in enough numbers to get their attention were to make it known we wanted eQSL to validate ARRL awards then perhaps some headway could be made.

My suggestion then, in all of this, is for all of us who use eQSl and are ARRL members contact the ARRL through it leadership chain of command and directly to make our wishes known.

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KB3TXP Jerry Mullins

To KB3TXP and VE3OIJ I would only add one very tiny correction. eQSL.cc was born in 1998, and LOTW did not come along until several years later. We were around doing electronic QSLing first, so we did not start out as a competitor. Indeed, I personally invited ARRL to use our system for QSLing, and asked them to accept our eQSLs for their awards long before LOTW was created. In fact, the guy who dreamed up the digital signature stuff was a member of eQSL and even tried to discredit us by fraudulently creating an account using a callsign that belonged to a well-known radio personality to show how easily it could be done. Of course, he was never able to obtain Authenticity Guarantee status, and that is of course the way we protect our eAwards programs from fraud and abuse.

Now that LOTW exists, it is a revenue source for ARRL, so of course they are not going to abandon it. Some of the other amateur radio societies were and some still are waiting for ARRL to cooperate with them, but as CQ Magazine found out, ARRL just doesn't have the bandwidth to make a lot of changes to their software to accommodate other organizations.

Thanks a lot to all of you reading this, for your support and ideas! 73 for now

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Of course, that's just my opinion... I could be wrong!

73,
Dave Morris, N5UP

Dave,
Great to see your post here! It's not often that we here from any of the admin folks. I understand you guys work in the background doing your thing and I'm sure you all get alot of emails via the Help! links, but it's still nice to hear from you guys every once in a while. Kinda lets us know someone is listening.
73 and Thanks for a great service!
Andy - n1ork

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N1ORK/P Orest 'Andy' Zajac

Since June 2001 our volunteers have answered over 130,000 emails that came in via the "Contact Support" form, so that's where most of our focus has been with regard to communications with the membership.

I sit in front of dual monitors from 8am until about midnight every single day, fixing things, working on new features and eAwards, and supporting the volunteers who are answering support email, fixing broken profiles, correcting wrong Zones, Grid Squares and Counties, reviewing eAward applications.

The Forums are not a good mechanism for obtaining support, because it would require us to go look through every forum for a question that hasn't been answered. It is a really good way for people to discuss things amongst themselves. But I do subscribe to a couple of the forums so that I can keep up what's happening in that subject matter, and sometimes I will comment. Especially on a Saturday when it's 100 degrees outside and even my dogs won't venture out ;)

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Of course, that's just my opinion... I could be wrong!

73,
Dave Morris, N5UP

I am afraid that whatever way one looks at things.... there is only one DXCC and that happens to be administered by the ARRL. And as DXCC, Honor Roll listing and that sort of thing is still coveted by many serious radio amateurs we'll have to live with that.

eQSL awards will not soon replace this - if only as it is the ARRL that decides what entity is valid and which is not.

I think paper QSL is outdated. That was valuable at the time that you were not really sure if someone really had heard you and there was no other way to confirm the contact. Now - with phone, skype and internet - that no longer requires something on paper by mail, or a volunteer channel like the bureau. Total waste of money, time and effort.

I don't care for paper QSL and stopped sending them via the bureau - only direct if requested. In this "paperless" day and age eQSL and LotW are the ultimate solutions. For those people that really want a paper card: they can generate one on <a href="http://tobbe.net.au/blog/qsl_index.php">my web site </a> and print it out....

I upload my log real time to eQSL and every other day to LotW. So anyone with access to one or both of these services can have his confirmation within the week. And - yes - I am AG. I think that that should be made compulsory by eQSL. Non AG qsl's are a total waste of bandwith.

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VK2GWK Henk Tobbe
Edited by VK2GWK Henk Tobbe on Aug 2, 2010 at 06:38 AM

I would agree with many of Henk's comments... especially that the ARRL determines "entities" and whether a station/DXpedition was legal and counts toward the awards, etc. They provide many services and deal with many issues that most hams either do not know of or take for granted. eQSL may have been around longer than LOTW, but DXCC was around before eQSL. And it is DXCC that was founded on a 'fee' model in order to pay for it's services.

I would remind my friends that the ARRL is not in it for 'PROFIT'... it is a non-profit organization. Taking in money is not necessarily profit, it is FUNDING. It takes money to do many things in this world... Remember just because someone charges a fee does not make it evil! You pay a fee to enter a hamfest, but do you criticize the sponsoring club for charging it? No, because it is easy to see where the money goes... renting the space, prizes, etc.

Where I personally have a problem with money and QSLing is the DX stations that historically refuse to answer anything but direct mailed QSLs with money in them and then keep the money and reply via bureau. I am NOT talking about DX stations that have high postage costs and not being sent enough money to cover it. I am talking about the stations I have heard of that have paid for HOMES with the money they make off being rare DX and what some DXers have been willing to send them to get a coveted card. THAT practice has hopefully waned if not gone away and such stations cards should be banned from their cards being eligible for an award. Of course, proving that kind of thing is pretty much impossible.


With that said, something like eQSL being run on donations only and not requiring money for participation is credit to the founders and the volunteers that make it run. But it also means that the user must except the limitations of such a system. DXCC is also a system essentially run on donations... but they simply require set donations for certain services... they call it a 'fee'. Their system still has some volunteers, albeit in a different ratio.

What I am trying to suggest is, there is a place for BOTH. What I just wish is that the average ham would go back to seeing a QSL as the final courtesy of a QSO... whether that QSL be direct mail, bureau, LOTW or eQSL. The guy worked you, had a conversation with you or hopefully fulfilled whatever it was that YOU wanted to get out of the QSO... One of the things he wanted out of the QSO was a QSL to help with an award. Can't you lift a finger to return the favor of helping another person enjoy a hobby as they have helped you enjoy it?

Just boils down to 'do unto others', in my humble opinion.


And by the way, what is up with this "logbook" thing on QRZ.com??? Are they trying to enter the electronic confirmation game? Well, I tried fooling with it and the site ended up temporarily kicking me off saying that someone with my site activity level should get a premium membership (in other words PAY UP). No thank you... I deleted all the log entries (once I was allowed back on). That is back door arm twisting trickery... eQSl lets you know up front what you get 'for your money'... Not 'here try this' followed by 'you really should pay for it'. Forget it.

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Tropicana Twister TV commercial - "It's from ALIENS!!! I seen'em!"
Edited by N4UFO Kevin Manzer on Aug 2, 2010 at 07:12 PM
Edited by N4UFO Kevin Manzer on Aug 2, 2010 at 07:13 PM