We realise that if you operate under a CEPT agreement, you may not have a separate license document for each country you operate from - eg if I operate as VE3/G4VXE.

That's no problem. Just upload the license image of your home license (in my case, the UK licence document) to the account that you want to AG and we'll approve it for you.

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Tim, G4VXE

Funny you should choose VE3 as an example because there is an individual reciprocal agreement between the US and Canada, which I believe pre-dates CEPT, that allows US stations to operate in Canada (and visa versa of course) with callsigns such as W3ZJ/VE3. Not that we really need any more confusion about how callsigns should be formed

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73, Rich - W3ZJ

In 1967 I operated as WA2RSX/VE2 and was a mobile operation to/from the EXPO fair in my 1966 Mustang. At that time, a request application was required to be filled out and a copy of my FCC license included.

By reading http://www.cept.org/ that the European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications Administrations - CEPT - I learned that CEPT was established in 1959.

FYI:

Administrations from the following 46 countries are members of CEPT:

Albania, Andorra, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus,Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Great Britain, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Moldova, Monaco, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russian Federation, San Marino, Serbia and Montenegro, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Turkey, Ukraine, Vatican.

Updated: 21 September 2004

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WA2RSX 73 de OPR: VINCE

Rich - yes, the Canadian situation is interesting! When I first operated from there, it was under a reciprocal agreement and I was told to sign G4VXE/VE3. When Canada signed up to CEPT I had to change to VE3/G4VXE !

Vince: Thanks for posting the CEPT info. Unfortunately, the list of countries covered by the agreement is out of date on the CEPT site. I was aware of a few additions. Actually finding an up-to-date list on the web seemed really hard. I failed - having looked at the ITU/IARU sites etc etc!

There is a CEPT list on the last page of the UK licence document, but this is probably not completely up-to-date either - so should not be considered definitive - but it's a start:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/licensing/classes/amateur/Licences/br_168.pdf

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Tim, G4VXE

Vince,
Thanks for the research and the list of CEPT member countries. However, be aware that there are many more countries that are not members of CEPT but have agreed to abide by the terms of the agreement. Most notably the US and Canada. It's not clear when these additional countries signed on and it probably varies by country. FYI: Netherlands Antilles is another non-member participant that I am aware of because I visit there yearly.

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73, Rich - W3ZJ
Edited by W3ZJ Rich Drake on Dec 1, 2005 at 06:51 AM
Edited by W3ZJ Rich Drake on Dec 1, 2005 at 06:52 AM

I have not come across "the agreement" as yet. I think that would be interesting reading.

Is the agreement similiar to the reciprocal licensing agreement between member countries?


OTOH, I sense that CEPT is analogous with ARRL in the USA, e.g., a national society and member of the IARU and provide support to the ITU.

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WA2RSX 73 de OPR: VINCE

Yes acceptance of the terms of the reciprocal licensing agreement is acceptance of it without modification. I researched it a few years ago before making my first trip to St. Maarten with a ham rig. There is a document number and it is available on-line but I have forgotten the details of where to find it. I think all the info is available on the ARRL site under reciprocal operating agreements or something of the like.

I think CEPT is more than an ARRL. it's an international licensing authority that issues operating permits and stations licenses on behalf of it's member countries. Thus, it is more analogous to the FCC than to the ARRL.

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73, Rich - W3ZJ
Edited by W3ZJ Rich Drake on Dec 1, 2005 at 09:05 AM

Using the VE3/callsign format is more logger-friendly than to use the callsign/VE3 format.

The official CEPT site is the one resource that should be up to date, and , hence, was the first place I went to research. The more that I read at the CEPT site, the more confused I become. What clearly began as a group of "European member countries" has evolved to include non-European countries as CEPT members as well as CEPT non-members (e.g., Canada, USA, New Zealand, Peru, Israel).

I still do not see CEPT as being the licensing authority, or have I missed the point entirely
Other than supporting the ITU regulations on behalf of European parties.

That listing on the last page of the UK licence document is intended to identify the meaning of abbreviations used within that document; perhaps not really meant to be a list of CEPT member countries, but rather a listing of countries that have agreed to abide by the CEPT recommendations: T/R 61-01 ( http://www.ero.dk/doc98/Official/Pdf/TR6101E.PDF ) and/or T/R 61-02. I have not taken the time to compare that listing with the list of 46 countries found at the CEPT site.

I agree; it is not easy to identify member countriess of the CEPT organization. This site http://www.amateurradio.uni-halle.de/hamdata/cept.en.html#countries is another interesting source of information.

Both you and Rich may already be aware of the info that the above comments point to. I appologize for rambling on, but I have a day off from babysitting grandkids ( 15 month old twin girl and boy ) and found some spare time to learn, by researching.

73, de ~ Vince ~

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WA2RSX 73 de OPR: VINCE

There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of CEPT issued licenses in our AG database for stations located in various countries.

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73, Rich - W3ZJ
Edited by W3ZJ Rich Drake on Dec 1, 2005 at 09:37 AM

I just came across a discussion about operating in Greenland on the LUX log eGroup. Norby has said that CEPT does not handle this because the applicant's stay will be longer than 3 months.

I don't know if that is true or if it applies in general to all CEPT issued permits. Point being that if true, then all those CEPT issued callsigns must be for operations less than 3 months. Perhaps something worthwhile checking our database ???

I'm not saying that CEPT permits should not qualify for identification purposes with regard to AG applicants.

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WA2RSX 73 de OPR: VINCE

I suspect he is referring to temporary out of country operations without obtaining a specific operating permit for that country, not CEPT licensing rules in member countries.

As far as I can tell CEPT lecenses are issued for life and have no expiration date.

You most likely won't find any info on the ARRL site about CEPT licensing because the ARRL info covers portable operation in other countries, not how to obtain a license in any particular country.

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73, Rich - W3ZJ

Not really relevant directly to CEPT licencing, but a clarification on UK licences.

When I first got my licence in 1969 it was a multipage document containing all the licence terms and my details on the front. This was replaced in 1977 with a similar document when all UK licencees were updated with new licence terms. This remains my actual licence, but it shows an address I haven't lived at for 25 years (and all my details is handwritten).

I am not sure what new UK licencees receive these days, but the licence conditions have been moved into a supplementary booklet (BR68) and I get a validation document with my details each year (annual renewal at the moment in the UK!) when I renew. This validation document by the way serves as documentary evidence for CEPT operation.

When I joined eQSL I wondered what document to submit for AG and decided that the validation document was best. It served the purpose that I was the owner of that call and had my correct and current details.

Did I decide right?

73 Dave

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G3YMC Dave Sergeant

Dave,

You did decide right! I'd normally expect UK amateurs to submit their Ofcom validation document. Occasionally someone will submit their original licence, or even rarer, a Radio Amateurs Certificate.

As long as it has your name on it and is from a recognised licencing body, there's no issue.

Happy New Year,

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Tim, G4VXE

In this discussion there has been a few misunderstandings and confusions about CEPT.

CEPT stands for "Conferance Europeenne de Poste et de Telecommunication" (International Conference for Post and Telecommunications). This "Conferene" has resulted in an international treaty between the participating countries about licensing in relation to telecommunications (not only amateur radio). The treaty - amongst other things - harmonised the examination rules and qualifications for a license. And because of this harmonisation it became easier for the member countries to accept each others licenses. This finally led to standard recognition of licenses between member countries. There are also third party countries (like Australia) that recognise licenses issued in CEPT member countries because they decided that the uniform examination rules guarantee a sufficient level of knowledge.

So - formally - there is no such thing as a CEPT license. There is a national license that is recognised in other countries because the issuing country is a member of CEPT.

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VK2GWK Henk Tobbe